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November 21, 2003 at 12:47 am #23022
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RevMen

Taking Bluntman’s suggestion, I’ve created a temporary group to discuss the possibility of a Brickfilms book. All who have been invited are people who might have something useful to say about it. If you can think of someone else who should be here, by all means speak up.

Is such a thing possible? Is there a market? What legal obstacles would there be? Who has any idea what they’re talking about?

November 21, 2003 at 1:00 am #23029
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Blunty

For those of you who did not recieve the initial PM which sparked the creation of this usergroup…. and are utterly confused right about now…

“Bluntman” wrote: Hiya, the Book Idea brought up in Pitboss’s “getting started” thread deserves more discussion I think, there has already been precedents set by that “The Brick Testament” book, http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament/ and the guide to ldraw “Official LDraw.org Guide To LDraw Tools for Windows

maybe we should contact The Rev. Brendan Powell Smith, and ask him about the legal issues, and costs involved? Perhaps a group of us, could consider coming together as a team, and combining our knowledge and experience, to produce a book to serve as not only a “how to” guide, but also as a general guide to out hobby, and the people, our community, involved in it.

I’m sending this in PM to try and keep this “low key” until if/when we came to a decision about the when/who/how’s of it… posted openly in the forums I can see a lot of excitement generated, but it could quickly loose focus and drive.

I’ve sent this same IM to Wandrer (who picked up on the book idea in the thread), Rev (“leader” of our community), Hali (wealth of ideas, and an English teacher who probably knows more about literature than I know about my own mother).
People I have not sent this to, but can imagine inviting to this project… MrGraff (our FAQ guy), zirkusaffe (the man who went pro, and probably the persons who’s skill we all admire the most) JamesFM, Buxton, the janitor, (all skilled animators) David Krupicz (4069 or some arrangement of numbers?) Rocketmen v’s robots… 3D lego animator.
Any other suggestions?

I hope this stirred some excitement amoungst you, we may want to set up a mailing list, or a hidden forum, for further discussions?

cheers, Nate.

I have more to add, details wise, but time doesn’t really pernit me to gotinto it right now… soon….

November 21, 2003 at 3:53 am #23048
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jay

I’ve been considering a similar project myself, although I had intended it only as a website and with a serious Mac slant – particularly because there’s much more support available in the forums for PC users already.

I can see how you could make a book out of it but (and maybe it’s because I’m so close to the subject) I can’t imagine who would buy it. In my experience, kids never have money and are rarely permitted to spend what they do get via the web. Those old enough to buy the book and the equipment could probably figure it out on their own like the rest of us.

Then again, reviewing the posts in the forums suggests that a lot of them can’t figure it out, or that they are missing that one last piece to pull it all together. They would also suggest that kids can get their parents to buy them just about anything. So maybe a book could work.

Maybe something that covers equipment basics (with some purchase suggestions), rudimentary moviemaking techniques, discussions on copyrights, originality and getting your work available to the world and lastly a section on the pros/cons (with tips) of using Lego bricks to make animated movies. It could really round out a decent-sized pocket guide!

Funny that you should mention the Reverend. I wrote him a week or so ago myself, regarding his dealings with TLC and trademark issues – I was curious how it might apply to my pirate movie. His response was that aside from a matter-of-course (and never repeated) cease and desist letter, he hasn’t had any contact from TLC. His book needed to have a disclaimer on both the inside front and back covers which was determined by the publisher, but that was it.

So I think the idea has merit but I don’t know if a book is the way to go. Out of necessity, the team would have to be pared down to one or two people. It would need to be physically produced at and distributed from a singular somewhere in the world. There would be money involved. Hosting an in-depth website would allow for more flexibility on all these fronts but you can’t really beat a book for catching the eye of “the man on the street” or for sheer coolness.

My initial thoughts.

-j

November 21, 2003 at 6:08 am #23059
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Buxton

A lot of what Jay says makes sense, particularly the concerns about the target audience. The market for the Brick Testament was much wider – Christians, AFOLs, etc. Most brickfilmers find their way here eventually, so we have a reasonable idea how many there are.

It’ll be difficult to keep things simple. When talking about editing a film, do we stick with VideoMach because it’s free, or cover several editors? Explaining the same thing in 5 different editors will be tedious for both writer and audience, but at the same time, explaining how to do it in an editor that 4/5 of the readership don’t use is equally pointless.

I think I have some other thoughts on this, but I need to go to work soon. I’ll have a think and come back to it later…

Anyway, I realise it’s early days, but if you want some ballpark ideas of what will be involved in publishing and distributing something like this, David Howe at Telos Publishing is approachable and has a history of publishing niche market (mostly Dr Who) books to a very high standard. I don’t mind talking to him on Brickfilms’ behalf if/when it comes down to it.

And finally, I spent 3 years as a technical author writing step-by-step instructions for using software. If you want any help with that side of things – be it writing or editing – let me know.

November 21, 2003 at 9:25 am #23068
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Stefan

I think one possible target audience is teachers. I have had several requests for BSOL coming from teachers who had animation (or filmmaking in general) as part of the lesson program.

However, the books on Lego that have been published up to now are
1) Books with building ideas. When I was young, there was this book explaining conjuring tricks built with Lego, and ideas for a post office made out of Lego (think stamps, a cash register, all in a size to make them work for real people) and I’ve seen this book full of creations, likely by Lego’s own master builders.
2) Books on Mindstorms. There’s plenty of these.
3) Books on Ldraw. There’s two of these.
4) Books on Lego trains. One by Jake McKee is being written as we speak.

Most animation books either focus on cell animation, on the construction of armatures or give a historical account. See for example the e-book at animateclay.com.

To summarise: there’s no such book available, but very few people are waiting for it.

Stefan.

P.S. I once bought a book on animation: “The animator’s survival kit” by Richard Williams. While it does have some useful stuff, it is written from the viewpoint of a cell animator. Consequently, most of it is not applicable to our hobby.

November 21, 2003 at 10:42 pm #23108
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The Janitor

I think it would be best to avoid much software related stuff, because plenty of that exists on this site and other places on the net. It would also become outdated eventually. Something that there is very little of on the web is actual animation techniques. Aside from hali’s excellent walking tutorials, we have little in the way of frame-by-frame instructions on how to make lego guys do stuff: Stand up, sit down, look mad, sad, or glad without using facial expressions, read a book, spin around…you get the idea. I know these are the problems I face most often while making a movie…not how to convert files with Videomach or put music in a film with DDclip. I try to pick up techniques by watching some of the best animated films, such as The Letter, but that’s kind of tough to do. So, basically, I would love to see a book covering Lego animation techniques.

November 22, 2003 at 10:24 pm #23196
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Stefan

I agree on that, and that’s exactly what Animation Class should do, in my opinion. But we SHOULD include a CD-rom with some films and a basic set of software, like

1) SMA and MonkeyJam
2) VirtualDub
3) WavTRACKER
4) MrGraff’s FPS calculator
5) VideoMach

These are all freeware or shareware, so there won’t be any big problems to get them, I guess.

Hey, what about trials of programs like MainVision Composer (formerly Axogon), AlamDV and StopMotionPro? They might even help financing this ;)

Yours,

Stefan.

November 23, 2003 at 1:11 am #23208
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mrgraff

:o I’m honored to make the list! Really!

Following on with the Janitor, I would also like to see on that CD, numerous samples of certain techniques. Preferably in different file formats. Perhaps even a collection of royalty-free clips that readers may use as part of tutorials that would be in the book.

November 23, 2003 at 2:14 am #23211
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RevMen

At first I thought this was an awful idea, but after reading everyone’s responses and mulling it over myself, it’s starting to sound like it really could work.

The royalty-free clips thing might not be a bad idea. I kinda like it. Perhaps we could include a set of royalty-free sound effects and music and any “stock footage” that might be useful.

I think a book could work if it made no mention of any particular hardware or software and only focused on technique. Chapters could be on set design, movement techniques (like hali’s walking tutorial), lighting (a most important chapter), creating scripts, voice acting, perhaps even music creation. There’s certainly enough to fill a book, especially with a lot of pictures.

Concerning possible legal action from Lego: After reading some strips from The Brick Testament, it occurs to me that it’s not the kind of book TLC would like to have associated with their products, as it does not take a “traditional” Christian approach to telling stories from the Bible. Lego’s very limited action in preventing the book’s publishing strongly suggests to me that publishing a book that was simply about animating Lego or similar figures would receive little to no resistance from them. While such a book does cash in on Lego’s hard-earned image, the boundaries of their trademark may be too fuzzy in this area for them to really do much about it, especially with the precedent of The Brick Testament being published and sold.

It’s starting to sound like a feasible project after all. I guess it would be in our best interest to address the business aspect of such a project sooner rather than later. There are some very important concepts we should address:

1) Who should be involved? Should we limit the project to just the people who have responded so far? Should we bring in others? Should I trim it down to 2 or 3, or just myself?

2) Where should any profits generated go? Should we keep some for Brickfilms operations and divvy up the rest amongst contributors? Should it all go to Brickfilms? Personally I’d love to see enough money generated that we could get a dedicated server for the site in a nice, fast data center somewhere and be able to host people’s films for little to no cost.

These are difficult questions and should probably be addressed before we go any further.

November 23, 2003 at 3:57 am #23217
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A how to book on brickfilming sounds like a great idea, and I’ve even thought of writing a book on 3D animation filmmaking (since I have yet to see many amateur / one man productions which are longer than 4 minutes…)

One slight problem though: Lego kinda owns the trademark on minifigs and other lego blocks. Getting them on board would be a necessity for any book (and also any brickfilm where you planned on making tons of money at it)

November 25, 2003 at 5:58 pm #23643
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RevMen

:lol:

I guess no one wants to address any of my questions. Understandable!

OK, anyone who’s interested in going further on this project send me an e-mail or PM.

As far as trademark issues go, like I said before I’m beginning to think the trademark of Lego’s minifigs isn’t as strong as their silence on the issue would have us believe. I have to think that with the Brick Testament still in publication and circulation, a book about animating Legos, which puts their toys in a positive light, would have no problem existing. Of course my speculation is no substitute for proper legal advise, but we gotta start somewhere.

November 25, 2003 at 6:30 pm #23647
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Stefan

I don’t think all the Mindstorms books, Virtual Lego and the LEGO Software Power Tools have been endorsed by LEGO. See http://news.lugnet.com/books/ for a long list of books, and there are even more (I remember some Dutch books from the library when I was young).

1) Who will be involved? We have people with different qualities, but many people writing a book usually results in a certain lack of coherence: some chapters will be more accessible than others[a]. Perhaps two actual writers and a “board of advisors”?

2) I have no clue. I think it’s only fair to see some of the profit (if any) on the authors’ bank account, but the idea of financing the site is an appealing one. Do you think we could generate that much money?

Another suggestion: let’s put the Animation Class series in it! If it ever gets done… Hali refuses to release his nearly-completed Lesson 3, Jay is not doing any animation himself, and the other projects are even less well-developed.

Finally an issue: do we have enough expertise around to justify the writing of such a book? Personally I feel I have lots to learn still, especially when it comes to timing.

Yours,

Stefan.

[a] At least, this is my experience with books on mathematics.

November 25, 2003 at 7:38 pm #23658
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RevMen

but the idea of financing the site is an appealing one. Do you think we could generate that much money?

I really don’t know how much revenue could be generated by such a project (if any). I do know that with a yearly budget of $3000 we could do some very cool things with the site. For starters, we could be located on an unmetered 10 mbps server somewhere, giving us the ability to have all films available for download at all times without fear of exceeding our transfer limits. We could use bittorrent, run the chat program directly off the server… OK, now I’m just daydreaming, back on task…

Finally an issue: do we have enough expertise around to justify the writing of such a book? Personally I feel I have lots to learn still, especially when it comes to timing.

A very valid point, but consider this: Who else has more expertise on Brickfilming than the people who frequent this site? Outside of the Spite Your Face boys or Thomas Foote, I can’t really think of anyone. Darwin wrote a book about evolution and he had a lot to learn about that subject. :)

November 25, 2003 at 8:41 pm #23664
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Blunty

sorry for my silence on this issue. I’m really very very interested in seeing this become more than an idea, but I’ve been holding off posting again untill I have a good chunk of time to sit down, solidify my thoughts and ideas and post again… this weekend I have a few days off… look for it then.
judging by the thoughfull and intelligent posts, questions and ideas thus far it seems I was right on the money with the people I selected… but then again it really was a no brainer… :)

November 25, 2003 at 8:51 pm #23667
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Buxton

Like Bluntman, I’m having a good old think. In answer to question 2, though, I have no problem with Brickfilms getting the proceeds and putting the money towards site improvements. I wouldn’t go putting a down payment on that 10mbps server just yet though – I don’t think the book market is especially buoyant at the moment.

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