Proposal – Minister of Brickfilming Welfare

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This topic contains 23 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  richardfrost 8 years, 5 months ago.

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    Profile photo of richardfrost

    You make a good argument Legoman. Let me answer a few of your points…

    “Legoman182182” wrote: I’m going to be controversial and oppose this idea

    Good debate is not controversial. If all this thread does is make us think a bit more about our responsibilities, then it will have been worthwhile.

    “Legoman182182” wrote: Firstly, it is currently the role of the minister of discussion to moderate all forums. Dividing the community into to two parts, brickfilming and non brickfilming, is bound to lead to more people with rose tinted nostalgia glasses wanting forums deleted and members who don’t spend as long in certain forums criticised.

    I think that is a leap of logic I can’t follow. I don’t see this as dividing the community into two parts at all. Just providing a little focus for moderators and sharing the load a bit.

    “Legoman182182” wrote: Attempting to marshal all new “members” would invariable lead to sending PM’s to inactive accounts and generally wasting time trying to contact people who arn’t there.

    I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting a new forum as a landing point for new members. There would be nothing forcing them there at all, no entry criteria, just an optional friendly starting point.

    “Legoman182182” wrote: Additionally, I would imagine that many new members would rather explore the entire community than be limited to one forum (for a set period or whatever you had in mind).

    I didn’t have any of that in mind. No walled garden or barrier to entry.

    “Legoman182182” wrote: Thirdly, I doubt that you will find many experienced brickfilmers willing to be paired with new aspiring members.

    No harm in trying though, is there? You never know!

    “Legoman182182” wrote: yet alone helping out an apprentice.

    I was thinking more along the lines of the term ‘Padawan’.

    “Legoman182182” wrote: Finally, almost all of the work and tasks that your minister would be exclusively taking on are open to any existing member (whether in a position of authority or otherwise) to do themselves. We can all, and often do, all of the following anyway:

    True, but not often enough, regularly enough, or with any consistency. The particular one is giving good, friendly, constructive feedback on first films.

    “Legoman182182” wrote: Additionally, other proposed plans (such as a new member forum, organised mentoring scheme etc) could be implemented without the need to create a new ministry by the minister of discussion.

    True, they could, and that might be the better way to go. At least we’re now having that debate.

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    ^Er, wait. Where did you get that we will be paired with aprentices? Or that new people would be limited as to where they go?

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    Profile photo of RevMen

    Rather than creating an entire new ministry, perhaps you can put pressure on the MoD to appoint a deputy to fulfil this duty.

    I’m hesitant to accept this idea because I don’t like the thought of electing someone to do what we all should be doing anyway.

    Profile photo of richardfrost

    OK. Then I’ll stand for MoD on this platform, and appoint a deputy to help me moderate the chat and the discussion forums of LD and Community if I win.

    Profile photo of Legoman182182

    I think that would be the best option. As rev says, we should all be doing most of these things anyway.

    You make a good argument Legoman.

    All part of the service. :wink

    I don’t see this as dividing the community into two parts at all. Just providing a little focus for moderators and sharing the load a bit.

    On reflection, I think you are probably right.

    I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting a new forum as a landing point for new members. There would be nothing forcing them there at all, no entry criteria, just an optional friendly starting point.

    Whilst I not sure it would be necessary, I see what you mean. However, should every forum not provide a friendly starting point?

    [quote]Thirdly, I doubt that you will find many experienced brickfilmers willing to be paired with new aspiring members.

    No harm in trying though, is there? You never know![/quote]

    Fair enough. It cant do any harm, I suppose.

    Profile photo of Cometgreen

    I like all of your ideas, but I think it’s important we sit down and go through them, and start looking at them practically. From what I can tell, these are fresh ideas, and I think we all find them quite smashing, but we need to move past the idea stage and start talking about details.

    Some are rather simple, and can be implemented immediately. It’s been suggested before to have a kind of ‘newbie’ forum, and I was just thinking of it again the other day (I couldn’t figure out where to move a thread about avatars, and thought it would be nice to have a forum for that). I think it would keep other forums clean and be a nice place for people new to the community-and perhaps new to internet forums in general-to learn about general etiquette and be directed to the proper resources.

    I would like to know what you mean by welcoming new members and pointing out the features. An automated PM? It seems like we have a lot more people signing up than actually participating in the forums, so some kind of individual message to each new member would be rather wasteful. It appears Legoman already pointed this out, but I don’t think your reply answers it clearly.

    The reviewing of lower quality films is another daunting task for anyone here. I agree that, in the old days, individual films would generally get more attention, but we’ve grown enormously since the old ezboard. A lot of members post a lot of films (we’re both reviewers, so we both know quite well how much [really, really bad stuff] gets submitted). This is one of the instances in which I disagree with Rev and think a separate ministry would be beneficial, as you could appoint deputies who are encouraged to take up this task. However, the argument could also be made that this should be the duty of the Review panel, who often has to go through these films anyway. Perhaps a more manageable plan is to ask members of the Review Panel to write some kind of critique for all of the films they watch, even those they reject? They can then post these reviews in the P&R thread. I know I try to include some kind of constructive criticism when writing the rejection note, but it’s never a full review and it would be better to post it in the forums.

    Now, the mentoring system is where things get complicated and seem a bit too idealistic for me. We may have volunteers really excited to help out right now, but will they still be up for it in September? November? Next year? How would their work differ from what a newbie could get from the Get Started forum and from the rest of the community? I think it’s a cool idea and all, but it definitely needs some ironing out, and I am afraid it could cause some complacency, as Watson said. I can see people replacing “Check the FAQ” with “Check with your mentor.”

    The contests idea also really needs some thought put into it. Will these contests try to accomplish certain tasks, like telling a story a certain way or animating a fight scene? How often will these be held? From your post, I got the idea that they’d be held often, but that’s not very practical and could stifle members’ own creativity. The best option might be simply holding one when it feels right, I guess. Moving on, what constitutes a new member? Is it based on their number of films, the length of time they’ve been a member, the quality of their films? How do we determine exactly what constitutes a newbish film and a higher quality film? I think it’s a cool idea, but I think we’ve had these kinds of contests in the past. I think the 24 hour contest was open to members of all skills, as well as your own EASTER contest. Having more contests like EASTER, perhaps just every spring and fall, would satisfy this idea nicely enough.

    Again, I can’t deny that they’re good ideas, but I’m wary of them as of this point. I definitely think some of the ideas should be implemented, but with care and after a lot of thought has been put into them. Like Watson, I’m a little afraid that some members won’t bother to help out newbies as much any more, because they figure these policies are doing a good enough job. I’m also just not a fan of creating programs in which a small group tries to correct the problem; I believe it’s better to think of ways to encourage all members to improve the situation. I believe in creating incentives so the common member feels compelled to go up to a new member and help them out, instead of trusting a group to stay on top of newbie activities.

    But hey, I think that these programs would help the community more than hurt it. I just think everyone needs to start asking questions and thinking of ways to make these work, instead of just hailing this as a cure-all. I also strongly suggest that we take this kind of initiative and creative energy and apply it to working on the Resources/Wiki. Streamlining our reference section, keeping it easy to understand and up-to-date, and filling it to the brim with content will produce far better results than a welcoming committee, imo.

    Lastly (very lastly), I just want to say that despite all the recent drama and panicking, I think we should recognize that this community has improved in its welcoming of new members. We are a lot more popular these days and get a lot of new and young members, so I don’t think we’ll ever get back to the more personal welcoming users might have experienced four years ago. A new member won’t be absorbed into the community as quickly because it’s just so big and diverse. But it’s been a while since I’ve seen a string of lazy “Check the FAQ!” replies to someone’s post. I count three threads on the first page of Animation/Effects asking about how to make a minifigure jump, complete with real answers and devoid of anyone getting pissy about answering the same question again and again. People are welcoming new members, giving tips, and providing links to help them understand an issue. We are definitely in a better place than we were a year or two ago.

    Cometgreen, who spent his only free time tonight writing this instead of set-building :evil

    Profile photo of Smeagol

    I like the ideas but I don’t see the need for a separate minister; most of these ideas don’t require additional “powers” in order to be carried out. (Electing a person to welcome people? Can’t anyone do this already? In my opinion, making an official position for this would sort of take away from the apparent authenticity of the welcoming.) As for reviewing newbie films in a positive light, stuff submitted to the directory should get this anyway; I know I always try to give a good explanation for rejections and balance it with positives and I believe that the majority of the review panel would do the same. The mentor system is a neat idea, but I don’t see how it could be feasible or more effective. As Comet said, it’s hard to make people stick to this and also new members often leave after a couple weeks anyway due to lack of attention span. I don’t see why it would be more effective to have one person deal with each new member than allowing for members to take advantage of the community’s collective knowledge through posting threads (though possibly in a newbie-oriented forum as you have suggested.) Additionally, I think most of the more experienced members probably get asked how-to questions through PMs a fair amount anyway; I receive a few of these a week (usually specific to how I did a particular thing in one of my own films) and I’m usually able to answer them without the need for the sender to create a thread about it.


    Profile photo of richardfrost

    Great posts CG and Smeagol. Do you mind if I answer these tonight, when I get home from work?

    In fact, CG, if you’re reading this, why don’t you exercise your mod powers and splice these last two posts into my election thread and lock this one? Then we can deal with the debate in one place.

    Profile photo of BertL

    I totally favor it.

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