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June 15, 2003 at 2:59 am #5297
Avatar of jay
jay

I think such a precise rating system as two decimal points (or even one, really) invites unfair comparisons. Sure, behind-the-scenes it could be that specific but for public view it should be simplified to a rating out of five stars or something broad like that.

As an aside, I disagree that a new movie makes an older one less entertaining to someone who hasn’t seen it. For those that think otherwise, regarding that ‘perfect score’ point: what if it were graded on the curve? Say we start off with a few really good movies entered as 10.00 (or five out of five stars, as the public sees it). Then, if another one someday comes along that truly is better it could be given a 10.5, which displays as the new 5 out of 5. Eventually, when we’ve got so many new awesome movies that we’re up to 17.5, the original 10.00 is displayed as a 4 out of 5 stars. Infinitely expandable.

-j

June 15, 2003 at 3:37 am #5303
Avatar of Brian of Gep
Brian of Gep

“legofred” wrote:

It was just an idea, but yes, maybe it would scare people away, which is NOT good at all…

Fredrik

If someone is that easily scared away, good riddance.

They will never improve without criticism.
(Be it their own, Hali’s or… Dare I say Weirdears?)

June 15, 2003 at 3:48 am #5307
Avatar of RevMen
RevMen

“zirkusaffe” wrote: regarding that ‘perfect score’ point: what if it were graded on the curve? Say we start off with a few really good movies entered as 10.00 (or five out of five stars, as the public sees it). Then, if another one someday comes along that truly is better it could be given a 10.5, which displays as the new 5 out of 5. Eventually, when we’ve got so many new awesome movies that we’re up to 17.5, the original 10.00 is displayed as a 4 out of 5 stars. Infinitely expandable.

This is a very interesting idea, and I suppose that math wouldn’t be too hard to work into the page to make it happen automatically. The only problem I see is it would kind of require the same raters to rate every single film from now until forever. If the ratings showed up as a normalized curve, then those are the ratings people would see and become familiar with and wouldn’t ever know when to apply a “17″ or a “250″, which might be the case in 10 years or something.

Even if the expanded numbers were easily visible by the raters, I don’t really like this inflation of ratings. There’ll be old timers saying, “back in my day, a good movie was just 15 points!” It seems like something that could get out of hand with time.

“Dumbing down” the publicly seen ratings to 5 stars or such does make sense, as there probably isn’t a whole lot of difference between an 8.5 and an 8.6. But, the movies will still sort in the same order in the directory and I don’t think it would help “I won’t watch anything less than an 8.0″ people. In fact, it could be worse, because anyone who wouldn’t watch anything with less than 5 stars has in effect said the same thing. Also, is it fair to group a 7.9 with a 6.1? Maybe, maybe not. Is it more fair than declaring an 8.1 less watchworthy than an 8.2? I don’t know.

June 15, 2003 at 4:01 am #5309
Avatar of Brian of Gep
Brian of Gep

I, too, think this is a good idea.

But would it be possible to change the actual score down, so that the new “10.00″ can be beat by the next “10.05″? Not sure if this makes sense to anyone but me… Just ask if you don’t understand.

June 15, 2003 at 10:01 am #5317
Avatar of Stefan
Stefan

I think, for reasons mentioned above, that ratings and reviews should be coupled. Just a bunch of bad ratings would really make a filmmaker doubt himself, get angry and perhaps leave a hobby where he/she could be great.

If a reviewer gives low rates, but then goes on to explain why he did so, thus giving the filmmaker pointers about where he could improve (which is often not even very hard), and point out aspects of the film where the filmmaker did do a good job, or at least was on the right way, heading in the right direction.

Finally, while all these systems to distinguish between good and slightly better films sound good in theory, but won’t work as well in practice. A rater would have to look up the exact rating of other films to be able to rate this one. This is highly impractical. Also, different raters will undoubtedly have different ideas about the value of ratings. For example, I once rated a film by Yolegoman with 3 smileys at Mocpages.com. He didn’t know it was me, and was rather disappointed with the rating, while I consider a 3-star rating “above average, more than acceptable”.

I therefore suggest that raters can give only whole points or tenths of a point. Should 2 films have the same rating, then in a search the newer one should show up above the older one (secondary sorting criterium).

Final remark: it’s hard to compare films with each other. Is Good Company better than The Gauntlet? What does a .01 difference mean?

Stefan.

June 15, 2003 at 10:22 am #5318
Avatar of theonewiththesharks
theonewiththesharks

While having 5 people chained to their computers watching every single film and giving thoughtful reviews and ratings sounds good, it’s scary to think that there word will become law, and that if your film doesn’t work for them or even offends them it will simply slip through the cracks and die

(which is what happens on the internet to things that aren’t popular right away),

so is there a way (all you tech guys that are doing all this work will love this extra work too!) to have a “critics rating” as well as a “public rating” where anyone who watches the movie can put a review in.

Whatever though, I’t's not like people aren’t going to post their films in the forums and have peeps look at them and review them there anyways.

-go topes

June 15, 2003 at 10:48 am #5319
Avatar of Stefan
Stefan

The Film Directory is meant as a showcase of brickfilms that can be found on the internet. For a full discussion of your film, in which everyone can participate, there’s always the forum.

Stefan.

June 15, 2003 at 4:35 pm #5341
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A rater would have to look up the exact rating of other films to be able to rate this one. This is highly impractical. Also, different raters will undoubtedly have different ideas about the value of ratings.

I bring this up again, as an alternative to a numerical system. Have a system where people don’t look up by scores, but rather what a film did well. I havn’t seen a film yet where there wasn’t at least one aspect that was above average. This way, you will see the good things mentioned instead of the bad (though you would cover this in the review). Think of it this way: Robbie Newbie makes a film. He submits it to be reviewed. When the review is posted he feels down because it says the animation is choppy and the lighting can give you a headache. It goes onto say that the plot also has some holes in it(then gives suggestions on how these things could be better improved). But wait, right when Robbie Newbie is getting discouraged he sees that the voice acting was considered outstanding! AHA! Something to work with thinks Robbie Newbie. Then perhaps you could have “Reviewer’s Choice” films. This is basically a film that the reviewer deemed good enough to keep permanently on his harddrive. Almost like a video game magazine rating system(without the numbers of course) where if you know reviewer “A” likes the same stuff you do, then you definately want to check out his “Choices”. Anyway, just thought I would blab a bit more about this. This is my last post here for a few days, going out of town. See you all in a bit.

June 15, 2003 at 5:05 pm #5350
Avatar of Motfilms
Motfilms

Everyone has probably said this before, but I’m too tired to check. Some good 7.9 movies won’t get watched by people who only watch the best. I don’t like this points thing.

June 15, 2003 at 5:16 pm #5353
Avatar of Logan
Logan

I agree with motfilms. There are even some good 6/10 and 7/10 movies. Heck, I want everybody to see all the movies, not just the best ones. Maybe you could have it like a forum. They watch the movie and then they are transported to a forum place where they can reply to the original review(which would be aat the top) or write their own review.

June 15, 2003 at 6:53 pm #5366
Avatar of RevMen
RevMen

“Pepe/Autolycus” wrote: Robbie Newbie makes a film. He submits it to be reviewed. When the review is posted he feels down because it says the animation is choppy and the lighting can give you a headache. It goes onto say that the plot also has some holes in it(then gives suggestions on how these things could be better improved). But wait, right when Robbie Newbie is getting discouraged he sees that the voice acting was considered outstanding! AHA! Something to work with thinks Robbie Newbie.

That’s precisely the point of breaking ratings into different categories. If we have 6 categories, then Robbie Newbie might have his film listed fairly highly in the sound category for his voice acting. As long as any film has one good aspect to it, it won’t get completely buried because it will be near the top of one list.

Somehow this seems to have been forgotten: There will not be an overall rating, nor will it be possible for someone using the directory to sort by ratings in more than one category at a time.

Someone coming to the directory who decides to sort by rating (as opposed to film length, film title, or release date) has to decide which category he’d like to sort by. He’s gotta choose animation, or sound, or whatever, and it’s not possible for him to generate a list that has the highest ratings in all the categories.

In addition to how you sort the list, you can also specify film genre, file type, director, or even search on the title. There are so many permutations of the search parameters that there really can’t just be one list that the same 5 films are always at the top of.

As long as a film has some redeeming qualities, it stands a very good chance of coming near the top of some list. It all depends on what the user of the directory is looking for. This is the best solution I could think of to make both the “let’s rate the films” people and the “every film deserves to be seen” people happy. There’s gotta be a compromise somewhere.

Then perhaps you could have “Reviewer’s Choice” films. This is basically a film that the reviewer deemed good enough to keep permanently on his harddrive. Almost like a video game magazine rating system(without the numbers of course) where if you know reviewer “A” likes the same stuff you do, then you definately want to check out his “Choices”. Anyway, just thought I would blab a bit more about this. This is my last post here for a few days, going out of town. See you all in a bit.

Now that’s an interesting thought. Each reviewer could maintain a list of his personal favorites, and there could be a page explaining who the reviewers are. Then you could click “see what films this reviewer likes” or something and the directory would then show which films are in that reviewer’s list. This would be a great opportunity to showcase films that might not score highly in any categories but have some qualities that a reviewer feels make the film worth downloading.

This reminds me of a music store that I used to frequent where every week a different employee would get an endcap to display 10 CDs that they personally liked. I think I found at least 1 CD that way that I otherwise would not have known existed.

Since I’ve been working with the directory so much lately, I’m discovering a lot of the old films that are really great but people don’t talk about much. For instance, last night I watched “Milkman Dan,” which had a terribly slow framerate and extremely sparse sets. But I thought the sounds were great and the story was hillarious. If I had a personal favorites list, this would probably be on it, though I can see how many people wouldn’t enjoy it at all.

I think you might be onto something here.

June 17, 2003 at 6:17 pm #5627
Avatar of LowweeK
LowweeK

Just my two cents to say that I’m pro-rating.
Think about all the newcomers to the Brickfilms site ! How can they do their choice ?
When I’m going to a download site, I might be shareware, music, winamp plugins or else, I’m ALWAYS guiding my choice at first with the rating.
Ok, it gives more visibility to the best movies (after all, this is normal), but we can think that if people enjoy a lot 5 stars movies, they’ll continue and dl the 4 stars and so on…
Raising the ceiling every time a movie creates a breakthru is a really good idea. Maybe one day, ROTE will only have 1 star :lol: :lol: :lol:

June 18, 2003 at 3:41 am #5679
Avatar of Brian of Gep
Brian of Gep

Something I forgot to mention earlier.

Anyone that’s serious about brickfilming
(Maybe not on dial-up, but oh well)
will eventually download all of the films.

This should just be for helping people improve,
and showing newbies the best ones for them to download first.

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